), On the far-counterfactual, is it possible that Wolfe is just a better writer than KSR? Contact Us So would African societies have had their own imperialism that would have allowed their parallel alternate modernity to come into being?  |  Concerning KS Robinson vs Gene Wolfe — I rather like some of Robinson’s characterization (though it’s worth noting that Green Mars is significantly better than Red Mars in this respect), and lately I’ve been feeling a bit dubious about Wolfe’s ability to create strong female characters. Stop waiting to be on the side of the majority. [*] Wolfe is perhaps less open to this — at least, this essay has some rather odd ideas about the nature of medieval European society, and a curious tone of “I know what the past was like, and no revisionist historians are going to convince me otherwise.”. Although recognizing the alternate versions of people from here was kind of fun (off the top of my head, I can remember Marx and Lenin, Sartre, and Samuel Huntington). I would like to mention the single worst alternate-history “story” ever written: Poul Anderson, back about 1990 I think, wrote a page of a physics textbook in some sort of pseudo-Germanic gibberish. en Zheng features as a character in Kim Stanley Robinson's alternative history The Years of Rice and Salt. As one would expect from Robinson, the book is packed, almost overflowing, with ideas. The Years of Rice and Salt is a novel by Kim Stanley Robinson. Tips: browse the semantic fields (see From ideas to words) in two languages to learn more. But I’ll pine for the four unwritten books of Master Li and Number Ten Ox. The one time I taught KSR (Red Mars), this tendency put students off so much they refused to finish the novel, much less consider or engage its ideas. He seems like a … I see it as his response to Orson Scott Card’s worst novel, Pastwatch: The Redemption of Christipher Columbus (I much prefer his Alvin Maker series for an alternate fantasy on early American history). He might be the only scifi writer in that category. I’m not sure if this was some misjudged attempt to suggest that the deviations from our history would be slow — history as weakly rather than strongly chaotic, lots of historical “inertia” — and Robinson didn’t know enough about Japanese history to realize the mistake; or if it was a bit of authorial laziness. I happen, and I continue to happen in this seemingly random way; a way that occasionally, just occasionally points to greater meaning even while it dissolves on closer inspection. But like I said earlier in reponse to the history production course, I think what’s most interesting about KSR’s novel and also its biggest liability is its reincarnation plot device–the same people from the same village meeting up with each other in different periods of the world history KSR wants to tell. The characters’ believability strengthens Wolfe’s ability to portray a world different from our own. You can’t unthink the West, you can’t really imagine the systematic difference of non-Western societies in a counterfactual way, in terms of what they might have developed into. Later in the novel, he shows that the Americas would have still suffered huge population losses due to disease whether it was a Pacific landing via China or the Atlantic one that actually happened. Why I call the reincarnation plot the novel’s biggest liability is b/c it fails to get around KSR’s biggest problem as a writer, which is creating interesting, fleshed-out characters. The Years Of Rice And Salt (SIGNED) Robinson, Kim Stanley. Seems a little quiet over here Report. Also, it doesn’t help that I knew that this was part of Anderson’s increasingly boring obsession with Teutonia. Quantity Available: 1. I don’t even know if the Star Trek writers realized the parallel was possible. (Isn’t that what ultimately happened after Reconstruction anyway?) Tripitaka: Monkey, how far is it to the Western Heaven, the abode of Buddha? He’s so big on ideas that his characters come across more as carriers of ideas, as people with interesting and important things to say (and sometimes do), than as “real people.” (Even when he shows them to be contradictory, irrational, driven by passions and obsessions, etc., it still comes off as stilted–cf. More fascinating material and ideas (though no less theoretical, with all its attendant faults) come from new and ongoing ethnographies of globalization. Actually, the central premise was itself ridiculous (a disease that only kills white people? Kim Stanley Robinson is a winner of the Hugo, Nebula, and Locus awards. That, perhaps, is the most enduring impression that "The Years of Rice and Salt" (for all the progressive uplift of its conclusion) leaves. God, I hated that Chung Kuo series. This is the only way we know how to write a counterfactual essay or book, however. It’s very hard to write a counterfactual that explores contingent outcomes with hundreds of variables in motion at once, where you’re trying to explore the total possibility space of change over time in a particular time and place. Used. They are the rice of the world, and you are the salt of the world. To make squares disappear and save space for other squares you have to assemble English words (left, right, up, down) from the falling squares. Eventual negotiations for reunification on favorable terms to the South? The web service Alexandria is granted from Memodata for the Ebay search. Victory at Gettysburg becomes victory in the Civil War? Oh yeah, Chung Kuo. These are the years of rice and salt. Northern capital overwhelming the Southern economy anyway? They may be the majority, but they are the trivial majority and you are the impactful minority. The English word games are: More de-centered and often counter-intuitive, if not counterfactual as such. E.g., Lee winning at Gettysburg, and so on. It may not have been reviewed by professional editors (see full disclaimer), All translations of the years of rice and salt. While we’re on the subject of China, anyone ever read The City Trilogy by Hsi-Kuo Chang? The novel then covers around 700 years of history, ending in the future compared to our timeline, around the year 2088 AD. So seeing the novel as a meditation on the writing of history, as an attempt to write a fictional historiography, or a metahistorical fiction, is at least as important as figuring out KSR’s take on religion, science, imperialism, etc. With a SensagentBox, visitors to your site can access reliable information on over 5 million pages provided by Sensagent.com. But hey, I write on Hawthorne, so it’s not as if I’m out off by novels or stories of ideas where mimetic characterization styles are less important than other things. But what’s interestingly is that in the end, that society essentially transits into modernity on roughly the same terms and with the same basic geist as Europe did. the Mars trilogy.) Of course much putatively extrapolative sf written before the break up of the soviet union has become a kind of ex post facto alternative history. I think it’s fair to say that in his alternate history’s efforts to destroy any clash of civilization arguments and other such cultural essentialisms, he goes too far in the other direction and tries to write a universal history where Buddhist/Confucianist- and Islamic civilization-dominated human development is not radically different from the Western Christian-dominated past half-millennia we’ve actually lived through. That is if something didn’t go wrong and punch us into a timeline somewhere between Brin’s Postman and a nuclear winter. All rights reserved. This simple, delicious dish of peas, pork and rice has graced holiday tables since the 1800s. Against whom? One can critique them for doing this *badly*, but one ought to assume this is the/a goal of the genre. There I was, dewy-eyed and innocent, reading my Analog or Asimov’s, expecting, you know, a story, and I got halfway through the %$@# thing before I realized what was going on. A windows (pop-into) of information (full-content of Sensagent) triggered by double-clicking any word on your webpage. I couldn’t help it, by that point everything was just so Western. I can’t deny it, mired in my own chaoses, subject to the bad plotting of my own life and unrelenting happenstance. Ten or twenty years from now we’ll look back at how today’s SF is a product of these times, and we’ll probably still be wondering how and whether an author from the West could convincingly write an alternate history in which another part of the world dominates without replaying the Western narrative of industrial revolution and all that. At first this is hard to believe because he doesn't refer to women as dolphins in it, but then on page 545 he refers to one as a "big wet beautiful animal," so you know it's the real deal. The Years of Rice and Salt: A Novel by Kim Stanley Robinson, is a 784 epic covering an alternative historical time line from the Middle Ages to (roughly) the present. Not a very original thought of mine, I know, but worth mentioning–since the point is to comment on our own reality, simplistic parallels are necessary, and I don’t think one ought to critique them for that. I agree with much of what has been said on this topic (constipation, etc. English thesaurus is mainly derived from The Integral Dictionary (TID). The wordgames anagrams, crossword, Lettris and Boggle are provided by Memodata. For an interesting look at a future dominated by China, check out Maureen McHugh’s China Mountain Zhang. The Enlightenment began in India, the Whigs are the Burmese, WWI and II are smushed together, decolonization happens, and so on. ○   Boggle. Get XML access to reach the best products. Boneshaker by Cherie Priest (2010), Blackout/All Clear by Connie Willis (2011), This entry is from Wikipedia, the leading user-contributed encyclopedia. I think that’s a good point. Rice – A gift of rice to a young couple signified fertility and was given as a way to bless the marriage with children. BUt that is his point, after all–that human history can’t help but follow certain patterns. The End. Company Information Hardcover. Your presence should make a BIG difference. One of my favorite examples that I like to raise in my courses is Walter Rodney’s How Europe Underdeveloped Africa. Like his subsequent Science in the Capital trilogy, The Years of Rice and Salt is a meditation on pre-utopian possibilities and conditions rather than a Utopia proper. by Kim Stanley Robinson. It occurred to me after a while that they could have also made a parallel to the role of the Bible in Western culture–our own recent past had people so deeply rooted in the Bible that they couldn’t speak outside of its cadences and metaphors. Lay readers may not have to go as far as ethnographies of globalizationl. I’m sure you remember. Like all alternate histories, there is a point of departure. Ironically, I think Robinson is more interested in history as an intellectual discipline, where the answers may not be known, or where there can be ambiguity. It’s a pretty schematic analysis of a few novels as critiques of 50s capitalist suburbia, which is fine enough, but as I remember, Robinson totally ignores the religious/psychedlic aspects of Dick’s work. I believe it was the series that introduced science fiction to Taiwan, and it’s definitely an alternate vision of the future. we must take rice and salt He is here to select a military merchant who will deliver rice and salt to Chang'an. Give contextual explanation and translation from your sites ! It also has some brief meditations on the nature of historical development, posed partly as a contrast between chaos theory and classical determinism (the latter being, understandably, the dogma of the Marxist-dominated society in that novel). Find out more, an offensive content(racist, pornographic, injurious, etc. (Often to praise it, by pointing out the dystopian alternatives.) Boggle gives you 3 minutes to find as many words (3 letters or more) as you can in a grid of 16 letters. The End. ), but the implicit message that has been conveyed (and reinforced by the counterfactual discussion as well) is that the West has ascended and will remain a dominant position. Just reading the current business press on India and China is enough to raise questions about any permanent dominance of the US and Europe. The Piedmontese eat little grains of rice which represent money. That’s historical materialism at work: you can smell the flowers along the teleological path a bit, but you eventually get to the same destination. The SensagentBox are offered by sensAgent. Sure, there was China to unite against, but one would think there would be Muslim rulers allying with the Chinese as well. This is a universe where the Industrial Revolution is triggered by the world's greatest scientific minds--in India. But you’re right, the whole thing paralleled the history of European industrialization and capitalism rather too well. It isn’t your standard kind of alternate history. The Years of Rice and Salt is an alternate history novel with major Buddhist and Islamic religious elements written by science fiction author Kim Stanley Robinson, a thought experiment about a world in which neither Christianity nor the European cultures based on it achieve lasting impact on world history. Certainly when I look at the early modern era of global trade and contact, I see not the prologue of modern colonial domination but something altogether rather more ambiguous and just plain different. Show more. The problem with this kind of counterfactual is that the further one gets away from the single contingent event, the more tenuously reasoned the argument becomes. "The Years Of Rice and Salt" posits a world where Christianity is for all intents wiped out by the plague, leaving Europe nearly uninhabit This is another of those books I tried to read two or three times previously and never could do it despite knowing I would like it once I got involved in it. Is this really so? This is really the issue that lies behind the epistemological despair of a lot of postcolonial theory. This is a Timeline for the events in the novel The Years Of Rice And Salt. Privacy policy Lettris is a curious tetris-clone game where all the bricks have the same square shape but different content. You could argue that a study like Ken Pomeranz’ The Great Divergence amounts to an unannounced counterfactual of this kind, given that he is trying to write about a huge number of important variables in comparing China and Western Europe in the transition to modernity. Letters must be adjacent and longer words score better. Robinson’s The Years of Rice and Salt is one of the few works I’ve seen that tries to go beyond, “What if the South won the Civil War”? Wu kong: You can walk from the time of your youth till the time you grow old, and after that, till you become young again; and even after going through such a cycle a thousand times, you may still find it difficult to reach the place where you want to go. I don’t think I ever finished it, but it’s all too hazy to remember. Where the teleology Tim dislikes comes in, I think, is in who KSR’s good guys are (the anti-imperialists, the democrats, the free thinkers, Enlightened few who try to bring progress into history) and who his bad guys are (the militarists, the imperialists, the dogmatists, the unEnlightened many and powerful few). I don’t think the point of most alternate histories is truly to speculate about the different, but rather to comment on our own reality. One interesting bit which didn’t necessarily parallel European history was the false dawn in Central Asia: the scientific revolution that almost got started, but was then snuffed out by war and disease. I found the series too Orientalist, what with the supposed War of Two Directions (Chinese = stability, Europeans = progress). The Years of Rice and Salt. withywindle said: Get XML access to fix the meaning of your metadata. Perhaps from the 15th to the late-ish 20th century, but given what I see around me, I don’t think this will continue. Then what? And the whole Muslim unity thing was a bit hard to swallow. That is, Wolfe creates believable characters that are not just substitutes for the author or carriers of one idea or another. At the risk of being disagreeable and/or posting a non-sequitur, my relative disinterest in counterfactuals as a historian is not that they are imagined (i.e. ○   Lettris Sure, it turns on a single “event”, in this case vastly higher mortality in Western Europe from the Black Death than elsewhere. The Years of Rice and Salt is an alternate history in which all of Europe was wiped out by the Black Death. The character we meet in The Years of Rice and Salt were part of a Jati in Tibet that got killed in an avalanche. Find the latest tracks, albums, and images from Years Of Rice And Salt. By the end of the novel, we find out that the philosophically-minded character (who’s been arguing for several centuries with his/her more impatient and volatile revolutionary friend) has a theory of the best way to write a history of the world (or at least of humanity)–which theory is the way TYoRaS is actually written. As long as it’s on my mind, though, I’ll explore an issue it raised for me. (Thus, “atomic science” becomes “uncleftish beholding,” and away you go…) Naturally, if playing games with languages and etymology are not your cup of tea, then this sort of thing won’t be very interesting.  |  But how could an Islamic bloc form when historically there were so many Muslim kingdoms competing against each other? The Years of Rice and Salt. See if you can get into the grid Hall of Fame ! Two nations? I do think it’s possible to write an imaginative counterfactual, however, in which a non-Western society comes to something other than modernity with dark faces and different names. I’m not sure there’s an obvious parallel to that in our history. How odd — I quite like “Uncleftish Beholding.” Of course, it’s not a story per se, just an entertaining experiment in what technical English might have looked like without borrowing any Greek or Latin terms. Rice signifies the phrase, “May the love in your home multiply.” Since a bag of rice can be a little plain, jazz up the gift by pouring the rice into a stylish porcelain treat jar. FYI, most poco folks have been questioing the historical and geographical frameworks of the works from the ’70s and ’80s that spawned the field–please don’t assume the field is stuck in some kind of time warp; it changes like any other. (Unless all of the zeppelins for book covers have been used up, in which case the subgenre will be in hibernation.). In the course of doing this, he reviews the basic arguments about the writing of history and surveys the basic theories of history. The whole thing came off as fairly doctrinaire and unreflective Marxism, so I’m not too surprised that he views world history through the lens of historical materialism. I would like to mention the single worst alternate-history “story” ever written: Poul Anderson, back about 1990 I think, wrote a page of a physics textbook in some sort of pseudo-Germanic gibberish. Some new Chinese leader sets out to conquer the world and accomplishes his goal, then he sets about erasing all histories that say China was ever subordinate to foreigners. My copy of the book is in another province. Much more so than Steven Barnes in his alternate history series (Lion’s Blood, Zulu Heart that deals with Western Europeans being enslaved in America by Africans and Arabs, I think, but both authors ultimately have the same problem, which is that they don’t know how to think sequentially through a history which is both alternate and alterate, e.g., in which a non-Western society changes over time without the dominance of the West. (Also, where did the Chungkuo series diverge from our history? Preview — The Years of Rice and Salt by Kim Stanley Robinson. The Years of Rice and Salt is an alternate history, one with a simple premise: what if the black death had killed off 99% of Europe's population instead of a third? Around what year in our calendar was the Chinese invasion of Japan supposed to have happened? Robinson tries to keep a very broad perspective on the consequences, however. Mfecane, Mines and Mandela: Southern Africa from 1600 to 2006, Fall 2006, History 8C From Leopold to Kabila: The Bad Twentieth Century in Central Africa, Spring 2008, Information Technology and Information Literacy, Oh Not Again He's Going to Tell Us It's a Complex System. He can’t really imagine what “Shaka” would have been had he been part of a dominant global civilization, save an angry militarist, can’t derive the full alternate history of “Zuluness” had it never been encapsulated within a British-dominated South Africa. By using our services, you agree to our use of cookies. It’s remarkably preoccupied with history and social upheaval, basically being Chinese romances set on another planet in the far future. I can settle for the century if it’s too much trouble converting. One thing I’ve been thinking about a lot when it comes to counterfactuals is how to get beyond the kind of counterfactual built on the logic of “for want of a nail”, where a single discrete event is given a plausibly different outcome and then a different set of macrohistorical circumstances is derived in a linear causal chain from that outcome. Previously unreleased track from lovable post-rockers Years of Rice and Salt. The novel seems to depict a second, even deadlier wave around the turn of the century. ○   Anagrams Listen to music from Years Of Rice And Salt like Eskimo Kiss, Amongst Your Earthiest Words the Angels Stray & more. Yes, China Mountain Zhang is quite good. There are some recent reappraisals of the rise of the West are making this exact observation, that the relative dominance of the West is a kind of historical blip within much longer and more sustained historical structures of global trade and interaction. Having tried my hand at alternate history myself–sadly unpublished–I’ll mention that I set my own alternate history tale very shortly after the moment of divergence, precisely so as to control for the ever-increasing number of changes from our reality. This is a problem for more than Robinson and Barnes. As far as regular citizens are concerned, China conquered the Roman Empire and just kept on going. Years of Rice and Salt. Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects, Research Libraries Group/OCLC Programs Talk, June 2007, Artificial Societies and Virtual Worlds (DiGRA 2005), Play of State: Sovereignty and Governance in MMOGs, History 1L The History of Play and Leisure, Spring 2008, History 1Y History of the Future Spring 2011, History 61 The Production of History, Spring 2007, History 62 The History of Reading, Spring 2007, History 62, The History of Reading, Spring 2012, History 83 What Ifs and Might-Have-Beens, Spring 2011, History 87 Development and Modern Africa, Spring 2007, History 88 The Social History of Consumption, Spring 2008, History 89 Environmental History of Africa, History 8B History of Southern Africa, Spring 2011, History 8B. Impactful minority the rest of the world the Chungkuo series diverge from our own novel by Stanley... Word games are: ○ Anagrams ○ Wildcard, crossword ○ Lettris ○ Boggle small. Point of departure would be Muslim rulers allying with the exception of small pockets in northern Scotland, in. Purposes of this discussion, is it possible that Wolfe is just a better writer than KSR the end but. And he situates his own writing in those traditions and positions himself in current debates in province... Which represent money historically there were so many Muslim kingdoms competing against other... Current business press on India and China is enough to raise questions about any permanent dominance of the.... Are the Salt of the world 's greatest scientific minds -- in India 14th AD! John is standard New year ’ s how Europe Underdeveloped Africa a universe where Industrial. Latest novel, his first since 1997 's Antarctica add New content to your site from Sensagent XML., even deadlier wave around the turn of the genre counter-intuitive, if anyone here has it. 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